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Author Topic: Will Tier 1s filter anything longer than a /32?  (Read 4105 times)

kirbini

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Will Tier 1s filter anything longer than a /32?
« on: March 15, 2011, 08:53:06 AM »

Hello.  We're a small hosting provider with an IPv4/20 and I'm working to set up our IPv6/32.

On the v4 side, one of the previous admins re-assigned/delegated two /24s to organizations that do not peer to us so we can't aggregate those spaces into our /20.  Not a big deal since everyone accepts /24 adverts.  However, these companies are now asking us to assign /48s to them from our /32.  I've read on ipv6.ops and the ARIN list that Tier 1 transit providers may not allow any advertisement longer than a /32 which means if I reassign something that doesn't transit through me I could  black hole my own network.  I lost some hair a couple of years ago when AT&T started silently enforcing its "no v4 prefix longer than /24" policy and we had a couple of /25s going through them.  Not in a hurry to go through that again... ::)

So I'm asking you smart people:  Will the big guys allow adverts on the /48 boundary or do you think I need to keep my /32 to myself and tell the clients to talk to their upstream providers for a /48?

Thanks in advance..
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broquea

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Re: Will Tier 1s filter anything longer than a /32?
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2011, 09:30:27 AM »

HE.NET believes that the smallest a network should accept is the smallest an RIR allocates, which to date is a /48. Anything smaller, don't expect it to be commonly accepted. Even Verizon finally caved in and allowed PI /48s. As for v4, we also only accept /24s as the smallest.
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kirbini

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Re: Will Tier 1s filter anything longer than a /32?
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2011, 10:58:00 AM »

Thanks for HE.NET's position.  As one of the oldest kids on this block I tend to believe that this policy will eventually permeate.  However....

If I read the ARIN NRPM correctly, /48's "shall be made from a distinctly identified prefix".  Isn't it possible that carriers will allow longer prefixes that meet the "distinctly identified" criteria and filter everything else longer than a /32?
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cconn

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Re: Will Tier 1s filter anything longer than a /32?
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2011, 11:00:08 AM »

It seems to be consensus that the /32 minimum is not realistic and /48 will be "the norm".  That said, if these companies don't peer with you, why is it your responsibility to provide them with IP space?  de-aggregating your /32 sounds stupid if they could theoretically qualify for their own /48.


And you are correct, meetings I have been in have had the idea of filtering non-PI prefixes, however not until there is a reason to.
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kirbini

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Re: Will Tier 1s filter anything longer than a /32?
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2011, 11:23:31 AM »

Agreed.  I do not want to split my /32 if I can help it. 

Quote
why is it your responsibility to provide them with IP space?

In a word (or three):  PHB.  I often have to do things simply because they are possible wether or not they are desirable or even compatible.  Usually along the lines of:

Owner:  "Hey, I met a guy at church last Sunday who asked if we could do X.  Can we?"
me:  "Well technically it's possible but...."
Owner:  "Great.  I told him we would have it done by Friday."   

I'm keeping the werewolves at bay for now.  The possibility that we might lose visibility to part of the Internet could be my silver bullet.
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cconn

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Re: Will Tier 1s filter anything longer than a /32?
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2011, 11:55:30 AM »

Agreed.  I do not want to split my /32 if I can help it.  

Quote
why is it your responsibility to provide them with IP space?

In a word (or three):  PHB.  I often have to do things simply because they are possible wether or not they are desirable or even compatible.  Usually along the lines of:

Owner:  "Hey, I met a guy at church last Sunday who asked if we could do X.  Can we?"
me:  "Well technically it's possible but...."
Owner:  "Great.  I told him we would have it done by Friday."    

I'm keeping the werewolves at bay for now.  The possibility that we might lose visibility to part of the Internet could be my silver bullet.

PHB  :D  rofl I am guessing he isn't going to retrace your reference to this forum  8)

Well, de-aggregated space usually has some sort of non-visibility disclaimer attached to it.  CYA and include some sort of disclaimer saying that you can't control ISP-xyz that might decide his routing table can't handle all prefixes and start filtering some.

I don't know if ARIN has a policy that even allows you to assign random /48s to organizations that while may own or be owned by you, don't actually have any connectivity with you.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2011, 11:57:12 AM by cconn »
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kirbini

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Re: Will Tier 1s filter anything longer than a /32?
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2011, 12:13:04 PM »

As the saying goes, "Stupid is as stupid does".  In this case I will not do.  My /32 will stay intact.

Thanks for the help and advice.

jk
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snarked

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Re: Will Tier 1s filter anything longer than a /32?
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2011, 02:27:44 PM »

I think ARIN has a block from which it will assign /48's to those who don't want 32's.  Maybe these clients should get their own allocations....
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