need advice about ipv6 start deployment

[Ahmed M. H. Alzaeem]

hi ,
im an isp company and all my network  is ipv4 ,
i cant busy new ipv4 and   i need to start ipv6 .

im providing service using ADSL  ,
im wondering which types of ADSL  routers and modems support ipv6 ,
many of our client use tplink and dlink  types .

should i use dual stack or tunneling ?

plz help ,

regards

[cholzhauer]

If you're an ISP, why not request an allotment from ARIN/RIPE/etc?

[kasperd]

Given the timing of your message, I assume you are receiving IP addresses from RIPE. One of the steps you absolutely need to take is to get an IPv6 block from RIPE. You'll also need to find out which of your peerings and upstreams can be used to route IPv6. You probably receive a default route for IPV4 from multiple upstream providers. You need to receive a default route for IPv6 as well, and most likely at least one of your current upstream providers can already provide that for you.

There are several parts of your system that needs to be updated to IPv6. You need to find out which order suits you best, and if any of the equipment will need to be replaced in order to support IPv6.

Since you are a bit late to the game, you might not be able to dual stack everywhere quickly enough to have it done by the time you run out of IPv4 addresses. If that's the case, you will need some transitioning mechanisms. Which transitioning mechanisms you need depend on the order in which you can upgrade your systems.

Do you know which parts of your system can support IPv6? Components to consider include:
- Core routers
- DSLAM equipment (at least I think that's what it is called in case of ADSL)
- CPE equipment including ADSL modems and routers
- Customers own computers

Does any of the equipment support transitioning mechanisms such as 6rd, 4rd, DS-LITE?

Disclaimer: I sell transitioning technology myself. Depending on the order in which you want to upgrade your systems you may or may not be a potential customer of my company.

[Ahmed M. H. Alzaeem]

Given the timing of your message, I assume you are receiving IP addresses from RIPE. One of the steps you absolutely need to take is to get an IPv6 block from RIPE. You'll also need to find out which of your peerings and upstreams can be used to route IPv6. You probably receive a default route for IPV4 from multiple upstream providers. You need to receive a default route for IPv6 as well, and most likely at least one of your current upstream providers can already provide that for you.

There are several parts of your system that needs to be updated to IPv6. You need to find out which order suits you best, and if any of the equipment will need to be replaced in order to support IPv6.

Since you are a bit late to the game, you might not be able to dual stack everywhere quickly enough to have it done by the time you run out of IPv4 addresses. If that's the case, you will need some transitioning mechanisms. Which transitioning mechanisms you need depend on the order in which you can upgrade your systems.

Do you know which parts of your system can support IPv6? Components to consider include:
- Core routers
- DSLAM equipment (at least I think that's what it is called in case of ADSL)
- CPE equipment including ADSL modems and routers
- Customers own computers

Does any of the equipment support transitioning mechanisms such as 6rd, 4rd, DS-LITE?

Disclaimer: I sell transitioning technology myself. Depending on the order in which you want to upgrade your systems you may or may not be a potential customer of my company.

hi ,
thanks very much for your reply ,
the most problem im suffuring is , how to start
i can use dual stack in our own system , which include the Radius server , AAA , DNS servers , Routers (gateway & Bras)
but the issue how to start and what is the best choice,
i mean , should the customer has ipv6 in his adsl router ?? or i can use NAT pt at my router the nearest to internet and still the customer uses ipv4 ,
should i guide my customers to buy a specific adsl routers that support ipv6 ?

===========================
also a big problem ,
which is how to edit or reconfigure the tunnel L2TP over ipsec which is impemented between me as an ISP and the PSTN  .

what i need to modifiy or should i need another link from pstn to support pstn  so as to support ipv6

again im  not professional in ipv6 and just need to how to start

with my best regards
Ahmad

[kasperd]

i can use dual stack in our own system , which include the Radius server , AAA , DNS servers , Routers (gateway & Bras)

When you say you can do that, do you mean you already started on those parts? Or do you mean you think you know how to do those, and you want to know if you should start doing those?

I'd say getting some DNS servers running dual stack is a sensible place to start. You are going to have to do it at some point. And most of the work in getting your dual stack DNS servers running is getting the IPv6 routes in and out of your network. Having those in place and having the dual stack DNS servers in place will be useful to you regardless of which transition plan you end up deciding on.

should the customer has ipv6 in his adsl router ??

Eventually yes. But a few factors affect how quickly you can get there. If the hardware in place right now supports it, it may just be a configuration change.

or i can use NAT pt at my router the nearest to internet and still the customer uses ipv4

The NAT solutions I know of for this fall into three categories.

• The first category is those that do not involve IPv6 at all. You'll see the terms NAT44, NAT444, CGN applied to this category. You are likely going to need this sort of NAT solution to some extent. But if that is the only connectivity you provide to your customers, you are doing them a disfavour. I have repeatedly advised people to stay away from providers, who provide such a solution as the only connectivity.
• The second category is NAT64+DNS64. In this category your customers will use IPv6 and you will convert it to IPv4 in the NAT. But if want this sort of NAT, you need to have the ADSL connections to the customers somehow supporting IPv6. This class of NAT is applicable if you have working dual stack all the way to your customers, and then run out of public IPv4 addresses.
• The third category is where the customer run IPv4 and the NAT translate this to IPv6 before leaving your network. I haven't seen this sort of NAT advertised from providers, which is why I decided to implement such a system myself. Because traffic is leaving the network as IPv6 there is no need to share addresses, and thus port translation can be avoided, which provides some advantages. If you want to provide this sort of NAT to your customers, you should also provide a NAT44 solution in parallel. If this is the sort of setup you have in mind, maybe we should communicate by email

should i guide my customers to buy a specific adsl routers that support ipv6 ?

That depends on a few things, but certainly for those customers who want to buy an ADSL router with IPv6 support, you should tell them what they need to do and ensure you have sufficient support on your end to make it work.

What other steps you need to take depends on what exactly is the equipment, and who has been providing it.

ADSL modem and router can be two separate pieces of hardware or one integrated piece of hardware. Additionally some users might not have a router, and it is also possible that the customer has ADSL modem build directly into their computer.

Another factor is what your role as ISP has been in providing the hardware in the first place. In some cases customers buy the hardware on their own without involvement of the ISP. In some cases the ISP sell hardware to the customer, when the customer signs up for the service. And in some cases the ISP provide the hardware as part of the subscription. In the last case the customer have a reasonable expectation that the ISP will replace the hardware free of charge, if necessary.

It may be one or two pieces of hardware that need to be replaced, and it may be your responsibility or the customer's responsibility. In any cases I wouldn't rush too much with getting it replaced. You need to ensure that the replacement hardware works well with your network and provide functional dual stack support.

If there is lack of IPv6 support in ADSL modem and/or DSLAM, but the customers have routes with IPv6 support, then a tunnelling solution may be a suitable solution. In that case 6rd may be the best choice of tunnelling solution. AFAIK Free in France and Comcast in US have been doing some large scale deployments of 6rd (but they are now taking the next step). Use of 6rd requires support on both your network and the customers' routers. So if the hardware in place cannot do 6rd already, it may be just as easy to replace those pieces of infrastructure that is IPv4 only as it would be to replace those that need to support 6rd to overcome the limitation on the ADSL hardware.

I'm sure you have had customers who have asked for IPv6 already, those are the first customers you should get the new hardware to (after you have tested it yourself).

also a big problem ,
which is how to edit or reconfigure the tunnel L2TP over ipsec which is impemented between me as an ISP and the PSTN  .

what i need to modifiy or should i need another link from pstn to support pstn  so as to support ipv6

That question is outside my area of expertise. I hope somebody else in the forum can answer that question.

again im  not professional in ipv6 and just need to how to start

I am hoping that my answers will help you make the right decision. I still don't know enough about your network to say for sure exactly which is the right solution for you.

[Ahmed M. H. Alzaeem]

hi ,
thanks very very very much for you precious info ,
to be honest , uptill now im not have a full idea about ipv6 in my isp ,

again , you said that the block of ipv6 is important , wt do you mean with that ??
the ripe gave me a choice to choose prefix from /29  ===> /32 ipv6

doesnt that very big to me ???
i mean does the ips gets /32 ????? "" ??? ??? ??? i think it is starange and very big to be given to one isp ""

i read a lite and found that isp gets /64 prefix ,

plz advice in this point , wt prefix is suitbale for me , i just hav a users and want to give them an ips .

again ,,,  thanks for your time to reply on my questions


regards
Ahmad

[kasperd]

ripe gave me a choice to choose prefix from /29  ===> /32 ipv6

If you are a small ISP and don't expect to grow to more than 50.000 customers within a year, then a /32 is appropriate. They don't hand out prefixes longer than a /32, so even if you don't need that many IPv6 addresses now, you'll get them anyway and have room to grow.

If you are a medium sized ISP, you might still be able to do just fine with a /32. It depends on how you handle the addresses. Growing to more than a million customers with a /32 is possible. But if you are that large, a /29 might be more appropriate.

Even if you only get a /32 now, and it turns out to not be enough, you can get another prefix later. If that happens, you'll have a much better idea about your needs, once you are to allocate the second prefix.

[Ahmed M. H. Alzaeem]

ripe gave me a choice to choose prefix from /29  ===> /32 ipv6

If you are a small ISP and don't expect to grow to more than 50.000 customers within a year, then a /32 is appropriate. They don't hand out prefixes longer than a /32, so even if you don't need that many IPv6 addresses now, you'll get them anyway and have room to grow.

If you are a medium sized ISP, you might still be able to do just fine with a /32. It depends on how you handle the addresses. Growing to more than a million customers with a /32 is possible. But if you are that large, a /29 might be more appropriate.

Even if you only get a /32 now, and it turns out to not be enough, you can get another prefix later. If that happens, you'll have a much better idea about your needs, once you are to allocate the second prefix.

hi kasper,
thanks for your reply ,
but  im my thought , if i owned /32 , i will never think to request more ,
u say /32 =====> u mean that i have 2^96 ips , which is horrible number !!!!!
this is my main starange idea about ipv6
regards
ahmad

[Ahmed M. H. Alzaeem]

i may be wrong about my thought , but i just compare my  all my ips in v4 which is about 4000 ips , and the ips which i will own if i got /32

in ipv4 i have a subnet from class c with slash /20



regards

ahmad

[kasperd]

i just compare my  all my ips in v4 which is about 4000 ips

In that case I think a /32 is appropriate for you. It will give you plenty of IPv6 addresses, so just hand out a /48 to each customer. Even at a very conservative HD-ratio estimate of 80% you'll still be able to grow to over 7000 customers in such a setup.

[Ahmed M. H. Alzaeem]

hi kasperd ,

thanks for ur preciuos info ,

regards
Ahmad

[tdensmore]

also a big problem ,
which is how to edit or reconfigure the tunnel L2TP over ipsec which is impemented between me as an ISP and the PSTN  .

what i need to modifiy or should i need another link from pstn to support pstn  so as to support ipv6

To me, PSTN = Public Switched Telephone Network.  What does it mean in this context?